OK. So several of the people of my past and present, some years ago, had converted to Pentecostal Apostolic christian types. I don't really care what invisible man a person worships, but in one case I had to sever a relationship altogether. In that I don't follow a specific dogma per se, my two older boys are attendees still. They have questions for me occasionally in regard to my faith, because they have been taught that any soul that hasn't been saved is doomed to an eternity in sulfur and lava. I don't wish to undermine their mother, so I often explain that I just choose to worship outside of church and that my views are not the same as Parkway Apostolic Church. I can see in Earl Jr.'s eyes that he is mustering up the courage for a lively debate. He's 13 after all. I will always try to be diplomatic, but I refuse to lie to them about my beliefs. What beliefs, you ask? Well...I am not an Atheist. I was an Atheist but then there was the whole "preemie" thing. I wouldn't say I'm Agnostic either. I'm pretty sure there is something greater than we feeble humans. I just don't know exactly what/who is out there and to what extent they guide the universe. What I am absolutely sure of is that there is no Christian God and the bible is hogwash. You can see where this might not sit well with those Christians that are close to me.
The problem for me is that the bible is compiled of hate, prejudice and fables all meant to persuade people to act in a way that is palatable for Christians. The bible was written by men, after all. Christians believe that the bible is God inspiring these men to write, but it's the authors that introduce this idea. It would be no different if I wrote a book, claimed that the book was actually written by a giant pink monkey named Stan, but since monkeys have no opposable thumbs Stan had to inspire me to write it. Praise be to Stan. How many disciples do you suppose I'd employ with that kind of system of faith?
The bible is anti-gay, anti-Jew, anti-woman. There are duplicities galore and way too much fire and brimstone for "sinners." Depending on your sect of the cult, the bible is translated literally by some and as loose fitting parables by others. In either case, there is a definite drop-off in credibility. Let's not forget the whole idea from the bible that the universe is only six thousand years old and there is no real mention of dinosaurs in it. For me, though, believability and credibility are lost in the first chapter. It's the tree.
God makes Eden. Deposits Adam and Eve. Tells them they have full run of the garden, but stay away from this one tree. They don't stay away from the tree. Human kind is fucked forever.
What's that you say? Free will? You're saying that God didn't want robots so he gave A&E free will. That way they'd have a choice. A choice to fuck mankind forever. Seems like poor parenting to me. God created the tree. He put it in the garden. They didn't really know any better than that God said don't touch it. God says, "You shouldn't touch that, but I won't tell you what to do. Just know that there are consequences." Well, go figure, they fucking touched it!
How about this for a parable? I'll take a chainsaw and place it on the coffee table. I'll tell Pearl, "You shouldn't touch this chainsaw." Then I start the chainsaw and maybe hang some balloons from it. I leave two year old Pearl alone in the room with the brightly colored, balloon adorned, running chainsaw. Subsequently, Pearl reaches for the chainsaw and her right hand is mangled up to the elbow. When Child Protective Services shows up at the door, I'll just say, "I told her not to touch it, but she didn't listen. She got what was coming to her." Oh yeah, when she has children of her own, I'll mangle their hands too. Sins of the mother and all that.
What do you think? Good parent or bad parent?
The point is that such a parable, fable or whatever is designed to make people obey, even when they don't understand. More likely, the tree story was designed to keep children in line. There is a line between faith and fear. The bible crosses that line, tap dances on it and moonwalks over to cult status.
I usually don't participate in the comments section, but I like a good debate. So if any of you would like to begin a hearty discussion about this topic, I will be glad to answer any questions you may have.
You make some good points. In my own experience I have abadoned organized religion. Laboring over the existence of some super being I came to the conclusion that I'm a "religious agnostic". As for the Bible and Koran , fodder for controversy and hatred.
ReplyDeleteI'm sure you have heard this one before but worth mentioning...Why won't God heal amputees? does he hate them?
ReplyDeleteAfter all in many cases he/she has cured cancer, heart disease, marriages, sunburn, and frequently passes tests for school children.
But what about amputees? I'm not trying to poke fun at these folks but come on already they need some blessings too!
Try to follow me on this one... Ready...here we go...
God does not like homosexuals according to some so he gave them AIDS as a punishment. ok ok stay with me here...
God has allowed the virus to spread to hetro men AND women "punishing bad behavior"?
So numerically...
Gay men = very large population of AIDS/HIV
Hetro men and women = Some and growing population of AIDS/HIV
Soooo.....
Lesbian Women = extremely few and far between cases of AIDS/HIV
The question becomes... Why does God love Lesbians more than anyone else?
Not exactly sure but I'm guessing that God is a big Softball fan!
I've got more to say on this subject! I'll pace myself
St. John of the Doe
Wow ... I am going to like reading what y'all are inspired to write!
ReplyDeleteI consider myself an agnostic. I don't think that anyone can create the concept of belief and still be as flawed as a being as I am. There isn't a man with any special link or connection to the divine that is greater than the one I have myself.
Being black, as a child, I would sit and watch Chuck Heston as Moses and wonder, 'if this is in Africa, why don't they look like Africans?'. That was the naive 'mouths of babes' logic that began my questioning of religion.
My Mom stopped making me go, but she would check up on my 'search'. See, while I couldn't as a kid put my faith in something that I saw as flawed as religion, I did think that there was 'something else'.
Whether it is my soul, spirit, essence or whatever you want to call it, there is something outside of my rationality that bids me to look for it. People say the old saying, 'it's not the destination but the journey', and that is something I do believe.
It is, after all, why I came and posted here.
Don't think that there is going to be an answer, and on a day where I watched back-to back-to-back-to-back episodes of one of my fave shows, 'Joan of Arcadia', this is a subject that is right on time for me.
Looking forward to see where this goes.
Come on Earl, you're a Catholic just like John Doe and me. Why all this other silly talk? We'll meet up in Heaven and kick the Pentecostals out of our bingo games (with the exception of Mother Tesch of course). I got your back.
ReplyDeleteEven Uncle Robby admits the bible was written so long ago by men, that it is open to interpretation and needs to be revised to fit the time. For example, the bible is against divorce. Well at the time, women were considered whores if they divorced, they were outcasts. Did that take into consideration situations where women are in an abusive relationship? No. The world has evolved. So should the bible. My dad is not an advocate of divorce, but he recognizes that divorce is sometimes the answer. My dad is even open to letting men have ear piercings. I can't go that far myself...
This is what I have learned from my parents: be a good person, be good to others, help others, feed the hungry. Don't expect anything in return. Be "Christ-like", i.e. a Christian, on this earth. I think if we all did that, the world be a happier place. None of this my religion is better than your religion hypcritical bullshit. Everyone knows the Catholics rule Heaven!
You had to go and pick a topic John Doe really likes. Next time why don't you just say OJ was a murderer. Oy vey.
T
P.S. John Doe, everyone knows God is a woman, i.e. she loves softball!
Mrs. Tesch, in her youth, was a highly competitive softball player. Should I be worried?
ReplyDeleteT - I only went ahead with the piercings because I knew Uncle Robby would be cool with it. How does he feel about Prince Alberts?
Earl,
ReplyDeleteConventional wisdom tells us... we are a county built on christian beliefs and the founding documents based on the 10 commandments. Ok? ok
The Bible is very clear on the commandments...what they mean...and punishment for violating them...
There are several I can take issue with but look at the 5th commandment. "Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the land which The Lord your God gives you."
It's really simple enough honor your mom and dad and you will live long. Good law good rule I have no problem with anything in the statement.
As a teenager...I did not follow this commandment and from time to time really put my parents to the test.
I am very glad that they were, and are, not literal Bible believers! If they were they would have been sanctioned by God to stone me to death after my first violation of this commandment.
3rd "Thou shall not take the Lord's name in vain"
4th " Keep holy the Sabbath"
Which Sabbath? Friday? Saturday? Sunday? Same punishment... Stoned to death...
This one I follow to the letter and I don't take a chance...so I refrain from work Friday Saturday AND Sunday!
What if you are punk teenager that has a part time Sunday job a the Walmart? you're fucked!
It really is kind of funny that as a Judeo-Christian country we find it offensive when another country punishes thieves by cutting off their hand. Are they barbarians or are they following the commandments?
Having said all of this, I still think that many Bible stories have a great deal of value in our day to day lives... not as doctrine, but as examples of how to live and treat others.
I wonder how hot hell really is?
Walking a fine line, I am,
John Doe
Kudos to John Doe: "How to live and treat others." That is my bible.
ReplyDeleteAs for Uncle Robby and the Prince Albert, I offer you this: Uncle R. was at the gym,showering off after his 47 miunute workout and saw a young gentleman in the shower. He was neck to toe in tattoos. Uncle Robby went up to him and told him he liked his ink, that he was a walking art museum. I asked Uncle Robby if the guy was tattooed, you know, everywhere, and he said yes, even his privates. Even his junk? His ball sac? Yes, Uncle Robby said. That goes to show you, I think he would be hip to a Prince Albert. We of course were a little afraid that he was going up to other men in the gym shower, but that is another blog entry all
together.
T
P.S. As for Mother Tesch, I wouldn't be worried about the softball. Now if she starts listening to Melissa Etheridge and watching Ellen Degeneres, we might needs to talk.
Correction, my P.S. should read "Mrs." Tesch rather than Mother Tesch. Of course you knew who I meant, but just wanted the readers to be aware. I didn't want Mother Tesch to think she forgot some whole portion of her life.
ReplyDeleteT
P.P.S. Now if the Mrs. starts following Women's Pro Rodeo, we will really have to talk. Come to think of it, she does like you "butch." She was all for the earing...
I asked and she mentioned no interest in the WPR or Melissa Etheridge. However, she does have Indigo Girls Greatest Hits and an autographed picture of Ani DeFranco. While snooping in the back of her closet I also found a box of flannel shirts and bandanas.
ReplyDeleteHmmm...
ps. John - 87 degrees with a mild Westerly wind, relative humidity 94%. OY! It's so uncomfortable.
As human beings, life gets complicated. I've come to realize religion for the most part is a human trait of needing something to believe in, hope for and yes, even blame for all our problems.
ReplyDeleteMe?I'm hearing you loud and clear on the Pencostal view. I grew up in such a home and honestly it scrarred me. I don't find any justification of any religion that insist on forcing belief through fear. I.e. if you don't believe in God you're going to hell. Ha! In that case I've been damned since childhood.
At the end of the day I do know this, if you can't believe in YOURSELF first and foremost as a valuable human being, a life worthy...how can you possibly believe in anything else. (Hugs)Indigo
By the way my new blog is here:
http://shatteredprose.blogspot.com/
Earl, from my experience, I think you are okay. She's probably one of those "I tried it once in college" kind of gals. Most guys thinks that is sexy.
ReplyDeleteT.
The idea of original sin INFURIATES me. I totally disdain it. I am a bit rushed right now and can't explain all this, but know that my contempt for the idea of original sin was the impetus of my novel "Harvey & Eck."
ReplyDeletegrrrrr!
Earl,
ReplyDeleteI understand the take you have on the A&E story... you wrote about the contradictions to the "literal" version of the story, and I have to fully agree.
I think the second way to look at this and other biblical stories is from the standpoint of literature....I'm getting way beyond my pay grade on this but let me try... I think the A&E story reminds us that there are consequences to our actions and sometimes those consequences can last a long time... I have, in my daily life, many tempting, shiny, sweet, juicy, low hanging apples that I would just love to devour. But, I don't. Why?
1. I am told not to... by who? ME
2. The action may hurt others, says who? ME
3. The action (before picking the apply) will have consequences as defined by? yep ME
4 The consequences (after picking the apple) can be short OR can last through eternity...Now its defined by ME (as in me holding on to guilt) AND also defined by the people I have hurt by my actions. Depending on how sweet the apple... the damage may last for eternity... or what seems like it!
I never mentioned God, hell fire, or eternal damnation...
But the story remains just that a story with a message....
Well, I'm off to start my day of apple dodging!
Nobody ever said anything about PEACHES! I am so there!
Signed,
a very Fruity,
John Doe
(not that there is anything wrong with it)
I like Eddie Izzard's idea of original sin.
ReplyDeleteOriginal sin! What a hellish idea that is. People have to go, “Father, bless me for I have sinned, I – I did an original sin – I – I poked a badger with a spoon.” “I’ve never heard of that one before! Five Hail Mary’s and two Hello, Dolly’s.” “Oh, all right…” “Bless me, Father, for I have slept with my next door neighbor’s wife.” “Heard it. I want an original sin.” “Oh, I’m terribly sorry.”
I like Eddie Issard's original sin too. I haven't gone into the confessional since my mother made me in high school, but I'm sure the priest was bored to tears!
ReplyDeleteAnother way to view original sin is that we are each born into the world that has been formed and changed by humans. We are born into joy and into pollution, into love and violence, into generosity and greed. Those sins in the world into which we are born are the original sin passed to us by those who come before us and they are a load on our backs. How wonderful it would be for us not to add to those sins, but how unlikely.
sorry; a little dyslexic this morning. I meant to say Eddie Izzard, of course
ReplyDelete